Until the day I die...

...I will always believe that some of these odd looking warblers are Orange-crown/Nashville hybrids until someone can prove to me that all of them have been genetically tested. It would be odder to think that there aren't hybrids of these two species because of the following:

The birds in the following pics were all together in one group. There are many distinguishing features of both species in the bird in the second pic.I was there and the bird in the second pic was green. and the eye ring was green. There have many pics of these birds posted that have even more similarities to both species.

The top one certainly has the broken eye-ring of the Orange-crowned.  Do you assume that that is one?  This hybridizing and cross-breeding seems to be fairly prevalent between some birds but geez, I don't think that I'd ever be able to pick it out.  I'd just be confused and befuddled.  Then again, some might say that that'd be normal for me!

Ray Swagerty----Charleston, SC

The bird in pic #1 is a typical Orange-crown and the bird in pic #3 is a typical Nashville. The bird in pic #2 has the odd coloration. But, it is not as odd as many I have seen. I am searching to see if there are any records of hybrids of the two species. So far, I have found one record of a Nashville/Tennessee hybrid.

I don't know of any other two species that have so many variations, all residing in the same area. It is just one of my projects, like trying to dispel the silly notion that animals are colorblind. lol

 I believe #2 is an Orange-Crowned/Nashville Hybrid.  Perhaps we should start a NEW Warbler species, the "Oranash Warbler".

All things, (well almost), are possible.  If it works, I'd offer up "Nash crowned Warbler," (Neherius thornii).   I'll get credit for naming it, if not actually being named in the binomial!  OK y'all scientists, I know that a hybrid would not get a totally new binomial, (rather likely a "var." or a "hyb." or maybe even a trinomial tacked on), but we're havin' fun here, (before I get chastized!).

Ray Swagerty----Charleston, SC

I like the "Orangeville Warbler" or, actually, the "Orangeville Express". An Orange-crown with a hood could be the "Hoodwinked" ?

I hate to sound thick (again) but, I do find it hard to believe that there are 25 variations of the Nashville and 25 variations of the Orange-crown all living in the same area. If some were blue or red or purple, OK but, they are not. All of these odd ones show combinations of the two species' plumages. That many variations occur when Red-shafted and Yellow-shafted Flickers breed. Other than that, I cannot think of any other birds that have that many variations in one locale besides Budgies at a pet store.  lol

Ray, always remember that science is fact until proven otherwise. One gets used to not having discoveries believed. That goes with the territory. Being chastized doesn't bother me as long as they don't come after me with guns.  lol  You wouldn't believe how long it took us to convince people that bats aren't blind after someone published that silly notion. We disproved that with a simple demonstration in our living room. Remember the mountain bike.....talk about being chastized...sheesh.  :(

 On a side note, here is the EXACT spot that the Nashville Warbler was discovered.  It is the old Nashville Memorial Hospital in Nashville, TN, where I live.  Alexander Wilson was standing on this spot in May of 1803, when he discovered a new Warbler that he named after the city.  The Nashville Warbler does NOT nest in Nashville.  It just passes through during Spring and Fall Migration.

Roy and Thornius:

 Roy---- I remember the mountain bike.  Go figure!  A secure retirement blown to he----heck.  Even being a humble neophyte, I never cease to be amazed at how little we know about the critters, (especially the birds), all around us.  It goes back to that thing, I suppose, about knowing more about Mars than what we know about the depths of our own oceans.  This comes from a professional Divemaster, (with multiple specialty ratings and in-water professional experience in metal-detecting, sub-bottom profiling, side-scan sonar, navigation, rescue, U/W archaeology, and U/W mapping and surface drafting), with nearly 2,000 open-ocean dives under the weight belt.  We don't know squat!

Thornius----Yep, I am familiar with Wilson.  He had a brief Charleston stay but didn't make, (here at least), the impact of "regulars" like Audubon, Bachman, Sprunt, Post, in birds, or Gaillard, Poinsett, Porcher, in botany, Lining in meteorology, or the generalists like Bartram, Lawson, Catesby and Linneaus.  Oh, to have lived here back then, or to have been near Nashville when it was first being "discovered", or in Oklahoma!  What a good time we'd have had there and then----don't y'all think so?

Ray Swagerty----Charleston, SC

Very interesting, Thornius. Maybe I should name these hybrids the Roy's Pond Warbler. That is where I first saw them and where I observed an Orange-crown trying to mate with a Nashville. Was one conceived at my place? Wow.

 Ray, that would have been an exciting time for discoveries, if one didn't get burned at the stake for witchcraft..lol  I am excited about the possibilty of predicting earthquakes at the moment.

As far as these birds go, I sent a video of one to Dr. Kenneth Parks about 15 years ago. He was the leading hybrid expert, at the Carnegie Institute in Pittsburgh. He thought it to be a hybrid but, he had health problems soon after and never got to follow up on it.

I am now in contact with another hybrid expert who's initial response was the following:

"I'm certain that those two species could potentially hybridize -- in terms of their evolutionary divergence, they are much more closely related to one another than are various other pairs of warblers that have produced living hybrid offspring. However, I don't know of any well-documented hybrids between them (but maybe they have just gone unrecognized as such?)."

So, the saga continues. I know there are more pressing questions but, hey, enquiring minds want to know. The problem is that I may find out that I am right but, I will never know if I am wrong because not every one of them in existence will be genetically tested. Just one of them thangs...science.

 The second picture doesn't look out of the ordinary for a 1st fall female Nashville. 

 The belly is significant paler than any Orange-crowned Warbler you'd come across.  I suspect that the photo exaggerates the similarity to OC Warbler as it appears the white balance in the photo is a tad off.

Nate, that pic was taken in late May. As far as the white balance goes, if you look at the limb it is sitting on, it is brown as it should be. The colors are correct. As I stated, I was there and, believe me, the bird was green.

I don't know why some people have such a hard time believing that these two birds could hybridize, they are, genetically, as close as two birds can be, they nest and migrate very closely together and are always seen together. Anytime one sees some of one of them, just wait a few minutes and the other species will show up. Plus, along with those two species will be some odd ones. And, don't forget, I watched one attempting to mate with the other.

Just a theory. Everyone has one.  lol